American cars that would work in Europe

". ." (xllx) 08/08/2013 at 13:32 • Filed to: oppositelock

0

53

American cars are generally underrepresented in Europe. While they're not that rare in my country, in most other places they're an uncommon sight. The reasons are obvious. American cars that were designed to compete in the American car market will often not fulfill the expectations of a European customer. Of course, many companies attempted to "adjust" their American products and bring them here, usually with terrible results. Disastrous VM diesel powered Chryslers and Jeeps instantly spring to mind.

Can you think of any cars that are or were made by an American company, for the American market but would also work (with minimal modifications) in Europe? And by work I mean cars that would actually make some sense to drive around here. Ones that won't make everybody in the streets shout "Oi! Ponce!" at the driver too.

Rules are simple:
- no classics
- stick to cars that aren't sold in Europe (for obvious reasons)

Let's see how much smarter Oppo is compared to car companies and find US made automobiles that could also be competitive on the Old Continent.

desertdog5051 > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:36

0

Way too big for most European cities.

Nerd-Vol > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:39

0

This is a pretty tough question. Most of the American cars worth owning have received help from our overseas friends. Camaro, G8 and so on. I also think cars like the Vette are available over in UK (I remember a Corvette dealer in London).

I would say the Mustang, but I am pretty sure you can get those two with a bit of work.

I watch this thread with interest.

. . > desertdog5051 08/08/2013 at 13:39

0

Ayup. While it'd probably work where I live, as my city has been destroyed around 100 years ago and rebuilt in a modern way (with wide streets and stuff), it'd probably be a nightmare in most other places.

For Sweden > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:39

0

The Ram half-ton will soon be offered with a V6 diesel, and would make a great commercial vehicle in Europe. It could also be sold in Fiat's dealership network. Maybe they'd badge it as a Lancia.

. . > For Sweden 08/08/2013 at 13:43

1

Both the RAM 1500 and the F-150 seem too big to me. Europe has a wide choice of small pickups (Nissan Navara, Mitsubishi L200, VW Amarok, Toyota Hilux, Isuzu D-Max, SsangYong Actyon Sports) that bigger pickups don't make much sense. Aditionally, you're going to have to buy an expensive bed cover or canopy for one of those. It makes much more sense to just buy a van.

For Sweden > Nerd-Vol 08/08/2013 at 13:45

0

It's much easier to privately import a new car to Europe than to North America, so the question really isn't what cars can't be had in Europe, but what cars are imported to Europe through the normal channels.

. . > Nerd-Vol 08/08/2013 at 13:45

0

Mustangs aren't currently officially offered in Europe.

For Sweden > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:47

1

Why would you need a bed cover or canopy? Just haul things in the open air.

. . > For Sweden 08/08/2013 at 13:50

0

Skip to 7:22

Also, that's just how things are around here. 95% of pickups have canopies or bed covers.

desertdog5051 > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:50

0

Where you?

When I take my pickup to Santa Fe, NM (settled and laid out around 1607+-, I have a hard time navigating many of the streets as they were designed for horses.

For Sweden > . . 08/08/2013 at 13:54

0

That's a pickup specifically designed to be a hot-rod, then shoddily converted to RHD by who-knows-who. As for the canopies and bed covers, your ways are wrong and need to change.

. . > For Sweden 08/08/2013 at 13:56

0

Putting a canopy on a pickup means that you gain a massive boot that you can actually leave things in.

dogisbadob > . . 08/08/2013 at 14:01

0

If the Chevy Astro and Saturn S-series weren't sold in Europe, then they would be good answers.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > For Sweden 08/08/2013 at 17:48

2

There's actually a couple of previous gen Ram pickups near me. I can safely say they dwarf some of the houses we have here.

There's a place for them, and that place is for people who want to have the bling of an Escalade, but are from the country.

They seem a bit brash for volume sales success.

Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder > . . 08/08/2013 at 17:49

0

No American car would 'work' in The Netherlands because you pay road tax according to the weight of your car here. American cars weigh alot, so they won't sell.

. . > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 08/08/2013 at 18:01

1

Luckily, we only pay road tax included in fuel here (and it's still probably cheaper than yours), but most of our motorways aren't free.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:02

2

Tricky one if you're not including classics. Most of the native American cars that we don't get over here are the big bread-and-butter saloons (sedans). Those were killed off over here by the popularity of the compact executive saloon from below and the luxury saloon from above. That's why no-one offers cars like the Ford Orion and Vauxhall Carlton any more.

Actually, I think the Lincoln MKZ might stand a chance if it's marketed well. It's free from any stigma or reputation they have in the States, so they could have a stab at building an identity for themselves again. They're also premium, which goes a long way towards selling something here.

Having said that, they should have tried that with the previous generation. Much better looks, and the chance to bring some American swagger to the continent before the 300.

That Lincoln hatchback might do well too. The Focus has a tremendous reputation over here, and offering a premium version of that could nicely eat into the Merc A-Class and BMW 1-Series market.

. . > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 08/08/2013 at 18:09

0

I thought that including classics would be pointless because they're usually bought for different reasons than contemporary cars.

What I find problematic with many American automobiles is the quality of the interior. I'm not sure if that's still the case, but even just a few years ago American cars were way behind Europeans in that respect. If they managed to fix that - Lincoln might stand a small chance (although I'm afraid that "Oi! Ponce!" comments would ensue). If not, there is absolutely no way it'd be able to tackle the European premium market. Even if it had a price to undercut the opposition. The previous generation Chrysler 300 tried exactly that and failed on its arse.

Hoccy > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:26

2

Though it's a rather big car, I can see this work around here if it were to get a diesel engine. It looks better than a Ford Galaxy, right?

If any of the large sedans were offered as a wagon, then yes, all of them.

. . > Hoccy 08/08/2013 at 18:29

0

I really quite like teh design of the current Galaxu, but I agree that Ford does lack a large SUV in its European lineup. As for large American estates - the last of B-bodies had estate models and those were just too massive to ever catch on.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:34

1

I get what you mean. We're used to very nice materials here, and often pay the price for it.

I'm not sure the previous gen 300 failed. It might not have been a runaway success, but it carved a place for itself in the marketplace. Something that was completely different to anything else on sale. Same for the Escalade actually.

I reckon that will serve it in good stead if and when they bring the next one over (with a hopefully improved interior).

If you're thinking about 'which classics would have succeeded in their day' rather than 'which succeed now' then it gets a bit more interesting.

I think something like the Corvair would have done well. It's probably the most European American car created. I don't think the Mustang would have done well at all, in any of its iterations. They were from an era when a Ferrari still only had a 4.0l engine. The success of the Mustang was built on affordable style and power, among other things. I don't think anyone who was rich enough to afford the fuel costs over here would have considered something relatively unprestigious, and most people who would have been attracted by the performance bargain wouldn't have been able to afford the thirst.

The only one I could see taking off is the SVO, and that's because it debuted during a decent turbo arms-race.

The first generation Chevrolet Corvette could have done well. Proper American style, in a package that's big but not too big for our roads.

Just a little size comparison with a native sports car.

Other than that, it's tricky to tell. I want to say oddballs like the Pontiac Tempest could have found a home here, but I think the native competition would have proven too strong (as imports did for the Tempest in the States too).

Something like the AMC Eagle might have done alright, as it offered something that just wasn't available from anyone else, but the engine choices would have to be a little different.

The Fiero might have done alright as well, but again it would have faced stiff competition.

Actually, back to modern cars, I think the ATS probably has the best shot of any new American car at getting purchase here in Europe. We do love a compact premium saloon.

Rust-y > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:43

1

The 300 was rather popular in Europe (though still a rare sight), I like it even more now that it has an italian interior as a Lancia. The 300's problems were, high fuel consumption for one, and Daimler-Benz forcing Chrysler to make cheap interiors (there's a comment about it on jalopnik somewhere). The latter is a big no-no for a big executive car everywhere I suppose.

Being a big car it's still a lot lower on the 'oi-pounce' scale than those house sized pickups.

. . > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 08/08/2013 at 18:43

1

Actually, just after posting I considered modifying the rules to include classic cars in their heyday, but in the end decided against it. To be honest, one example of a car that had the potential to do well in Europe back in the day was the mark 1 Ford Thunderbird. It was quite compact and a nice package overall.

NickDavisGB > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:46

0

The biggest trouble in getting American cars accepted in Europe (apart from their reputation for challenging cornering ability) is the shear size. Getting a BMW down my road is a challenge !!

. . > Rust-y 08/08/2013 at 18:46

0

You do see 300s occasionally, but they were by no means popular. After all, at the end of the day it was a dated W210 dressed up in bling, with a rubbish interior and not very appealing engine options. There was just no middle ground. You either went for the Daimler 3.0 diesel or an immensely thirsty petrol.

BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:47

0

I'll second that, yeah. The later Thunderbirds inspired a lot of styling over here, so it would have been good to have the originals floating around.

BATC42 > . . 08/08/2013 at 18:54

0

The Crown vic' wouldn't work, it's too big. A French city actually bought 3 to use them as police cars (why? I nver understood this one), but since they are so big, they can't use them in the small streets or anywhere for that matter. What they have done is use them as barricades to block off street. This happened in Montpelier. They bought them for 40k€ in 2003, and sold one for 4500€ in 2010...

The only cars I think would work are the Dodge Neon, Dart, well, basically anything small (maybe the Camry, or the likes).

. . > BiTurbo228 - Dr Frankenstein of Spitfires 08/08/2013 at 18:55

1

Amen. Someone who lives not far from my parents has a previous generation F-250 (I know, I know, that's larger), and he literally never parks in the lined out parking spots. He's forced to parallel park the truck in the street because otherwise he'd never be able to get out of it, even if he parked it perfectly between the lines. While my city has nice and wide streets, many of our parking spots are still european-sized and unsuitable for American pickups.

. . > BATC42 08/08/2013 at 18:57

0

The Crown Victoria in my original post was just there as an example of an American car. Not as something I thought could work in Europe.

Rust-y > Hoccy 08/08/2013 at 18:58

1

Is that a 'mini' stretch limo.. ?

That thing is just too long: over 30-35cm longer than the Galaxy or the S-Max, and about 50cm longer than the C-Max. With parking being rather tight (France), I don't think It'd be very successful. They might sell a few in the banlieu though.

S-Max, C-Max, B-Max are everywhere here, especially the last one.

BATC42 > For Sweden 08/08/2013 at 18:58

0

I saw one today while leaving the cinema. The parking spots are quite large in this parking lot, so it was fitting, though it was too long. The nose of the truck was against the wall, and the back of the bed was over the road.

A Mitsubishi L200 was parked near, I didn't know the RAM were so big compared to the pick-up we get here.

. . > BATC42 08/08/2013 at 19:00

0

I get to drive a Nissan Navara quite often (as my dad owns one) and even that's sometimes too long for some of the parking spaces. I probably wouldn't dare take it to some of the shopping centre parking lots.

Hoccy > Rust-y 08/08/2013 at 19:11

0

I see your point, but in places where parking is easier I think Ford could do something with it. It's long, but so is the Audi Q7, and I spot those very often.

I don't think any american cars not currently offered would work in a european city though.

Rust-y > . . 08/08/2013 at 19:20

0

Much, much more character than the Merc. To my surprise I discovered that the 5.7HEMI (340HP) consumes about 13L/100km, while a comparable Mercedes E500 (306HP) is at 11L/100km. I guess it comes down to the shit interior; people going OMG OVER 5L; and the E class holding it's value better.

I'd love to get one as an occasional driver (they're relatively cheap), but that would mean I'd have to start selling organs to be able to afford the insurance.

. . > Rust-y 08/08/2013 at 19:24

0

My 2.0 CLK consumes 13L in an urban cycle. During my commute the HEMI would probably break 20.

Rust-y > BATC42 08/08/2013 at 19:27

1

Ho Lee Fuk, a Crown Vic police car in France!!! It's so exciting and stupid at the same time. Did Luc Besson serve as mayor or something? Thanks for sharing.

Rust-y > . . 08/08/2013 at 19:37

0

The E500 wouldn't be far behind with 17.3 , but then you do get 34 extra HP.

My last car was a 2004 Renault Laguna 1.8 that averaged about 12L/100km in town. Tomorrow after a long wait, we'll be finally picking up our new Focus that's supposed to get 6,5L/100km in town.

Spasoje > dogisbadob 08/08/2013 at 20:05

0

What do you mean? They really weren't sold in Europe...

boxrocket > Hoccy 08/08/2013 at 20:13

0

Instead of the Flex (which should have been called the Edge, since it's boxy), I submit the Edge (which should have been called the Flex, because it's roundy). Bigger than the Kuga, available as FWD and AWD with I4 or V6 power, it's in essence a tall Fusion/Mondeo:

or its corporate twin, the Lincoln MKX:

. Really the entire Lincoln lineup (except the Navigator, probably, although they do have Excursions and Expeditions over there) could be sold there.

I wouldn't wish any gm or Chrysler product on the rest of the world right now.

victor > . . 08/08/2013 at 20:29

0

What was disastrous w/ the VM diesel Chrysler vehicles? Was the engine/powertrain/drivetrain a mess? The reason i ask is because the new Jeeps and Chrysler products will start having VM diesels here in the US in the near future.

. . > victor 08/08/2013 at 20:37

0

The 2.5 TD VM diesels that they used to put in Chryslers and Jeeps just wan't designed to be used in cars. It was an engine that was meant for stationary operation, for example in generators. The problem with cars is that you have constantly changing revs and G's affecting it from all sides while you're driving.

They also had four separate heads, one for each cylinder. Funny thing is, because of the way they were designed, you couldn't just take off one. Every time all four had to come off. That means each time a head failed (and they'd fail very, very, very often) you had to refurbish all four. Many workshops straight up refuse to work on those cars as they know that the customer is going to be back after a couple of months with another bad head, and very unhappy with the work they'd done (while it's just impossible to keep those things from breaking down).

When those 2.5 TD cars came out they went straight down to the very bottoms of all reliability rankings.

victor > . . 08/08/2013 at 20:59

0

Interesting. The 3.0 V6 TD that is going into the Grand Cherokee and Dodge Ram 1500 was supposedly clean-sheet design by VMM when it was partially owned by GM. It was originally designed for the Cadillac ATS and CTS, but GM"s stake in VMM was sold off and picked up by Fiat during the financial crisis.

How's the rep on the 3.0 V6 TD VM engines?

. . > victor 08/08/2013 at 21:04

0

Sorry, but I have no idea. I've not heard any horror stories as of yet, but then again those engines are pretty much brand new (came out in 2011 or so I believe). One good thing is that there is absolutely no way they could be as bad as those old 2.5 4-pots. Problems with those started almost immediatelly after they came out.

Rory > . . 08/08/2013 at 22:38

0

As a European with an American car I can honestly say , they work...Kinda....in a weird way!
Yes they are big , parking can be a bit of a pain and if you happen to live in a rhd country , you can have a little trouble .. but the overall satisfaction of having something different and quirky outweighs everything.
I drove across Europe last year in my 06 Mustang and I have to say, I had no issues , I was very comfortable and I had a hell of a lot of fun.

In Europe, Muscle cars seem to work and are relatively common as are Pickups. There is an admiration for classic American style over here, hence why the Chrysler 300C was reasonably popular.

I do love My Mustang, Although I do seem to cry at petrol stations a lot

Fatamericanstig > Rory 08/09/2013 at 00:26

0

Did you do a tour of the continent? I always wanted to take a Mustang (any year) and just tour Europe.

7liter12598723 > victor 08/09/2013 at 03:42

0

GM still retains a stake in VM Mortori. Or that is to say that it now has a 50% stake in VM again. (as of 2007; previously they had had a 100% stake that they gave up when they sold off one of their subdivisions back in 2000, to Chrysler, who then sold it to Penske, in two stages, 2003 and 2007, who then sold half to GM in 2007, and then later sold the other half to Fiat, where the Chrysler connection returns).

boxjohn > Pabuuu, JDM car enthusiast & Italian parts hoarder 08/09/2013 at 05:07

0

Not as much as you'd think. Really, they're usually lighter than european cars of the same size.

Mikeado > For Sweden 08/09/2013 at 05:49

0

People who want a large commercial vehicle generally buy a Transit van. We have lots of Ranger-sized pickups though, for the countryside and people who just prefer pickups.

Mikeado > Hoccy 08/09/2013 at 05:52

0

My parents have a Ford Galaxy, and based on pictures I'd say the Galaxy's more practical and a better MPV. This also looks a bit chintzy on chrome wheels with big silver bits all over it, and wouldn't fit in Ford's range aesthetically anyway.

Mikeado > . . 08/09/2013 at 05:59

2

The only one I can think of is the Dodge Dart. It would need one or two diesel engines and maybe an estate body option, but it's the right size and it's based on an Alfa Romeo, so it'll be somewhat familiar to drive.

Plus, it's a Dodge that actually looks OK and might actually be the least bit attractive as a buying option, unlike the Avenger, Nitro and Journey, which look ugly and are about as rare as hen's teeth because nobody likes them. They've axed the Caliber here too, because... just no.

Rory > Fatamericanstig 08/09/2013 at 07:06

0

It was a brief tour but I went from Ireland to France , to Belgium , Germany (visited the ring) and back to france. It was so incredibly easy and comfortable.

James > Mikeado 08/09/2013 at 10:15

0

I was hoping they would try again to make dodge mainstream in the EU with this but after the cluster f**k that was the Avenger and the current deal with fiat its never going to happen

GrauGeist > . . 02/24/2014 at 20:45

0

Hummer H2.

If it's good enough for Jeremy Clarkson, it's good enough for the rest of them.